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Re: Roster numbers/Exploits

By Infinity on Trial
2/08/2020 3:25 pm
I've been leading the charge for a mass correction in the distribution of speed. No CB should have speed below 77 or so, for instance, and DL should be much, much slower.

Re: Roster numbers/Exploits

By TheAdmiral
2/09/2020 7:31 am
Infinity on Trial wrote:
I've been leading the charge for a mass correction in the distribution of speed. No CB should have speed below 77 or so, for instance, and DL should be much, much slower.


Speed (imo) should be based around average player speeds at each position at the NFL combine. I'm not sure if the data is readily available but taking fastest, slowest and average for each position (over a five year period) should give a realistic speed for each position ie a 100 rated speed WR would be clocking around 4 seconds, whereas a 100 rated speed DT would be around 5+ seconds.

My main issue is that IF a player is playing out of position and rated 34/66 he should be prone to running the wrong route, jumping offside, pass interference calls (both Offensive and Defensive, holding calls etc (ie learning the position) - basically any played whose current rating for a position is less than 50 he should be a liability, but also show flashes of potential of the player he could be. They should also be more injury prone eg a lightweight speedy WR getting pancaked by a 300lbs Lineman should quickly slow him down.

Does the sim take into account a gradual slowing of speed during a game (conditioning/stamina) to represent the physical punishment taken on each play

I think that some players have too many listed positions, yes there are areas where you can have 'hybrid' players, but they should be more specific eg RB/FB, RB/WR, FB/TE, LT/RT, LG/RG, LT/LG, RT/RG, C/LG/RG, DE/OLB, FS/SS/MLB. I would also like to see a couple of 'Jack-of-all-trades' positions ie OL (can play all OL positions), DL (can play all DL positions), DB (Can play all secondary positions).

There are also position combos I don't think are realistic ie any DL playing in the secondary

Re: Roster numbers/Exploits

By raymattison21
2/10/2020 10:42 am
TheAdmiral wrote:
Infinity on Trial wrote:
I've been leading the charge for a mass correction in the distribution of speed. No CB should have speed below 77 or so, for instance, and DL should be much, much slower.


Speed (imo) should be based around average player speeds at each position at the NFL combine. I'm not sure if the data is readily available but taking fastest, slowest and average for each position (over a five year period) should give a realistic speed for each position ie a 100 rated speed WR would be clocking around 4 seconds, whereas a 100 rated speed DT would be around 5+ seconds.

We used to have scales of a 100 speed for each position. Some users had difficulty understanding an olineman had the same speed(on the player card) as a Db but they traveled at different speeds, so it was cahnged to factor in the weight of a player. This was only a display change.

This game uses thrust formulas with fatigue calculated each frame to make a players speed and its slightly different all the time due to these factors. Speed Ranges are made but they are different than the nfls . The athletic freaks are just not in this game. Our ranges are 4.5 to 8 or more secs.


My main issue is that IF a player is playing out of position and rated 34/66 he should be prone to running the wrong route, jumping offside, pass interference calls (both Offensive and Defensive, holding calls etc (ie learning the position) - basically any played whose current rating for a position is less than 50 he should be a liability, but also show flashes of potential of the player he could be. They should also be more injury prone eg a lightweight speedy WR getting pancaked by a 300lbs Lineman should quickly slow him down.

I am pretty sure stuff like this is coded in already. Perhaps the values are too low right now, but alot of factors are at play here. I think those smaller guys are a bit more injury prone if you overload them, but they have to be weak in order to be pushed around. Big dline are are just too slow to catch them in the first place.

Does the sim take into account a gradual slowing of speed during a game (conditioning/stamina) to represent the physical punishment taken on each play

I had a play years ago where a 73 speed TE out run my 90 speed DB. The only factor was the TE broke his tackle earlier in the play. So something is going on, but if your lucky you can stiil get a back over 300 carries in a season and play guys 100 snaps a game.. There is season long fatigue and the factor of weight effecting speed each frame so it depends on how much of a work load a guy is getting at any given time. I just think it a bit too strong for heavy guys or the scale there is expanded a bit due to the fact we use only wieght and not height .


I think that some players have too many listed positions, yes there are areas where you can have 'hybrid' players, but they should be more specific eg RB/FB, RB/WR, FB/TE, LT/RT, LG/RG, LT/LG, RT/RG, C/LG/RG, DE/OLB, FS/SS/MLB. I would also like to see a couple of 'Jack-of-all-trades' positions ie OL (can play all OL positions), DL (can play all DL positions), DB (Can play all secondary positions).

There are also position combos I don't think are realistic ie any DL playing in the secondary


The last part is a build of everything else. In the nfl all that stuff matters . Height, wieght, strength, speed, and how easy it is to learn multiple postions. The real responsibilities within those position assignments are absent here so overlaping postions favor the players with speed cause thats what get you in to position. Not proper footwork , angles, and leverage....stuff that can be learned or taught to level the speed gaps in the nfl.

Reallife its technique topping off the correct player frame and athletic abilities. Here its intelligence getting you that edge, but it doesn't trump the speed gaps created by different weight and speeds.

And for searching out of positon for player you got to think they can gain or lose 70 pounds. That happens all the time from Highschool to college to the pros so i have no problem there. It cause when they lose 70 pounds their 40 yards dash could lose a half a second. I dont know how common that is for great Divison 1 athletes. Levan Kirkland gained alot of weight from college to pros , but he didn't lose much speed. So i dont really like our system here in the first place.

I will draft a guy and play him at LB cause he cant cover yet, and as those skill get to par i will move him to db....The biigest issue i have here is i will move him to Dline for the twilight of his career to prevent the speed drop at year 9. None of that feels right.



Re: Roster numbers/Exploits

By Lucky
2/10/2020 11:12 am
The salary cap/contracts in this game are whack

So much stuff here is trying to move the game further and further from an NFL simulation. You can't expect to draft a backfield full of guys that "should" be WR's.. list them as RB's pay them less and expect them not to hold out and become disgruntled (see Le'Veon Bell)

No franchise tag in the gam(which is determined by player position), no players holding out and refusing contracts because they are being asked to play in positions they don't know or have the actual build for, or they aren't being paid correctly for their contributions. You gonna ask that 300lb DE to drop 80 in the pro's to play corner. uh.. whatever with the one-off examples. 6'7 corners?? This kind of transformations start waaaaayyyyy before they hit the pro's.

Those examples are whack, what I'm reading is people so selfish they only want changes that help them specifically with their lack of understanding of even "basic fan knowledge" of why players are almost exclusively locked into their positions. All of these variables are not present in the game, but you want to move the game permanently in a direction that makes those variables impossible to implement in the future if the game does last. Only looking at whats directly in front of you with no consideration of the future.

Now Mollow is leaving, citing frustration. As far as I can tell he's a good player, and now he's leaving.. every league I'm in has people making posts about leaving.. I can't help but think about how many people have left because the ridiculously loud minority has guided this game and the dev off a cliff.

Don't even respond, make me sick.
Last edited at 2/10/2020 11:13 am