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The Need for Speed (and Other Allusions to Top Gun)

By setherick
9/27/2017 8:48 pm
OK, the allusions to Top Gun bit in the Subject is a complete lie. I'm not going to allude to Top Gun at all in this thread. Not even one "talk to me Goose."

This started out as a reply on the MFN-1 forums that I was too fixated on Speed in the game. But I have enough to post this publicly. I'm sure there are other threads that I'm leaving out, forgetting, didn't book mark, etc. But there is enough here to show why Speed is the only thing that matters for most positions in the game right now.

(If you want to know why this is, listen to the MFN Tonight podcast on JDB's thoughts on why fast football players are the best football players.)

Speed and Break Tackle

jdavidbakr wrote:
The break tackle logic takes both the attribute and the player's weight into account (as well as speed, angle of the tackle, whether there are other players on him, etc). It in itself is not the exclusive factor. A small player with a high break tackle attribute can be similar to a large player with a lower break tackle attribute. Strength and size also determine how much a player will drag his tacklers, but the break tackle attribute doesn't come into play there.

That is to say, it's not a simple comparison of the break tackle vs the tackling ability to decide whether the tackle is successful.


This thread: https://agent86.myfootballnow.com/community/1/620

Here's why it matters:

* Slow RBs with good Break Tackle are not as effective as fast RBs with bad Break Tackle. Because slow RBs take so long to get to the hole, they are already a liability. But since Speed impacts Break Tackle, they can't rely on their Break Tackle attribute to carry them. High Strength will help them push the pile, but Strength is tied to weight and heavy weight makes players functionally slower. And functionally slower makes them worse at Break Tackle.

* Fast RBs with bad to mediocre Break Tackle get a boost in Breaking Tackle. They also change the pursuit angle more easily although the jump cut has mostly been removed from the game thankfully. Before RBs would make a 130 degree jump cut and the defender couldn't tackle them.

Speed and Route Running / "M2M Coverage" on Go Routes

jdavidbakr wrote:
The biggest impact for M2M skill is an opposition to a WR's route running skill. When a WR makes a cut, the sharpness of the cut in determined by his route running skill, and the ability of the DB to cut with him is determined by the M2M skill. On fly routes the M2M skill and route running skill are not really used, in those cases it does boil down to speed.


This thread: https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/forums/6/1151?page=3

Here's why it matters:

* Go routes dominate the medium and passing game. This means that on 1/3 to 1/2 of all passing plays you defend, your DBs will be matched up Speed vs Speed with the receiver.

* Route-running only impacts a few routes because of how long it takes QBs to deliver the ball.

* DBs have no idea what to do when a receiver is free running, so you have to rely on Speed for them to catch up to the receiver.

* All of these apply to LBs as well. Also, since the OL doesn't stay home to pass block, fast LBs can blitz through open holes easily. That is if they are appropriately spaced on the snap. (That's another story.)

Speed and Pass Blocking

Prior to 0.4.2, Speed vs Speed comparisons used to be the primary determiner if an Offensive Tackle could block a Defensive End. This has fortunately changed. But I don't know how much. Here's how blocking "used" to work:

jdavidbakr wrote:
The "blocking" attributes is mostly used against the defense's run/pass defense attribute to determine how long a block will be held. Speed is used to determine whether the blocker can get into position in time to make the block. Strength is used to determine the 'push' of the block.


See this thread: https://agent86.myfootballnow.com/community/1/2269

Here's why it still matters:

* This was a ridiculous paradigm. What it allowed was players to play underweight players at DE and completely destroy leagues. Since Speed is tied to weight, those underweight players would ALWAYS be faster than the OL. This shows just how much Speed impacts areas of the game where it shouldn't.

* Strength isn't applied to pass blocking in the same way that it's applied to run blocking. Your pass blocking OL won't push a DL back. They just won't. So if you're passing, it's still better to have fast OL than slow and strong. Just in case Speed still impacts pass blocking more than we're being told.

Speed and QBs

There is no official comment from JDB about this, but fast QBs are more accurate than slow QBs.

Here's why this makes sense. Being under pressure negatively impacts a QB's accuracy. A fast QB can escape being under pressure completely, and then set his feet and throw.

Re: The Need for Speed (and Other Allusions to Top Gun)

By Gustoon - League Admin
9/28/2017 3:32 pm
High scramble also impacts accuracy. High scramble + acceleration and a moderate amount of speed can make an ordinary QB a bit more special.

Re: The Need for Speed (and Other Allusions to Top Gun)

By setherick
9/28/2017 3:37 pm
Gustoon wrote:
High scramble also impacts accuracy. High scramble + acceleration and a moderate amount of speed can make an ordinary QB a bit more special.


This. Specifically, Scramble helps mitigate the "Under Pressure" penalty. I've also noticed that high Break Tackle is causing defenders to "bounce" off QB's more.

Re: The Need for Speed (and Other Allusions to Top Gun)

By GrandadB
1/10/2018 3:44 pm
This is a copy of a post I made today in the Paydirt League, regarding mismatch in speed between WRs and CBs and how it can result in 4 or more long pass TDs in a game. This situation falls into the "exploit" category, no different from using goaline formations to "auto" goaline defenses, or overuse of a play both off & def, for examples.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GG Skins, its a good example for any MFN owner/managers that are not aware about what happens when you have more than a 10 mismatch in speed btw the WRs and CBs, in addition to the opposing team having a good OL, and good QB, as Washington does. That mismatch results in long passes for TDs. In the Skins/Pack game it resulted in 6 TDs. 3 TDs by WR1 McClain (91 sp), 2 of them were fly or go patterns (straight) both over 80 yds. vs CB1 Kay (76) (15 speed differential). 2 were to WR2 Glick (95 sp) on fly patterns vs CB Rose (85 sp) (10 sp diff).

It is very important to be aware of the speed matchups between WRs & CBs. In the MFN 1 forum, posted by JDB.....

jdavidbakr wrote:
The biggest impact for M2M skill is an opposition to a WR's route running skill. When a WR makes a cut, the sharpness of the cut is determined by his route running skill, and the ability of the DB to cut with him is determined by the M2M skill. On fly routes the M2M skill and route running skill are not really used, in those cases it does boil down to speed.


If you dont have any DBs with at least 85+ speed, you are in trouble when you face a team with 2 or more WRs with 90+ speed (like Washington) and they throw a lot of fly routes on long pass plays, in addition to having effective pass blocking. You will get burned. The only other strategy is to either blitz heavy and try to get more pressure on the QB or use more deep zone coverages, 3 & 4 man. I have not tried that approach with the zones, and heavy blitzing using 2LBs and/or DBs has been significantly reduced in the latest game version, anyone had success with using 3 & 4 Deep Zone coverages? cheers, gdb



Last edited at 1/10/2018 3:48 pm

Re: The Need for Speed (and Other Allusions to Top Gun)

By setherick
1/10/2018 4:03 pm
What you can do in that case is drop into a 3 or 4 Deep Zone in situations where your opponent is likely to run those routes. 3 or 4 Deep Zone eliminates B&R, thus avoiding the B&R fall downs that happen with slow DBs with bad B&R against fast WRs. DBs also track go routes correctly while in the 3 or 4 Deep Zone and having underneath defenders increases the chances for knockdowns and interceptions.

Re: The Need for Speed (and Other Allusions to Top Gun)

By raymattison21
1/10/2018 8:43 pm
setherick wrote:
What you can do in that case is drop into a 3 or 4 Deep Zone in situations where your opponent is likely to run those routes. 3 or 4 Deep Zone eliminates B&R, thus avoiding the B&R fall downs that happen with slow DBs with bad B&R against fast WRs. DBs also track go routes correctly while in the 3 or 4 Deep Zone and having underneath defenders increases the chances for knockdowns and interceptions.


I am running zone in beta 87 and not all three deep stop fly patterns . The ones where cbs and either safety is deep might , but where the CB takes the shallow zone on a rotation and the safety is responsible for the deep outer third is a recipe for long TDs almost every time. Especially when the ball is snapped from the opposite hash.

Re: The Need for Speed (and Other Allusions to Top Gun)

By setherick
1/10/2018 8:56 pm
raymattison21 wrote:
setherick wrote:
What you can do in that case is drop into a 3 or 4 Deep Zone in situations where your opponent is likely to run those routes. 3 or 4 Deep Zone eliminates B&R, thus avoiding the B&R fall downs that happen with slow DBs with bad B&R against fast WRs. DBs also track go routes correctly while in the 3 or 4 Deep Zone and having underneath defenders increases the chances for knockdowns and interceptions.


I am running zone in beta 87 and not all three deep stop fly patterns . The ones where cbs and either safety is deep might , but where the CB takes the shallow zone on a rotation and the safety is responsible for the deep outer third is a recipe for long TDs almost every time. Especially when the ball is snapped from the opposite hash.


Shallow zones are still broken. The 3 Deep and 4 Deep with the CBs running deep work because the CB will follow the deepest man out of the zone.

Also, the 3 Deep Zone only covers 75% of the field, so you have to mind the gap.
Last edited at 1/10/2018 8:57 pm