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Re: 4.6 Passing Issues by the Data

By setherick
12/16/2021 9:30 am
The data in USFL, which is one of the most competitive and established leagues, doesn't look any better for Long passes:

Re: 4.6 Passing Issues by the Data

By Kababmaster
12/16/2021 9:36 am
Silly question, how are you guys downloading this info ? I'm returning after a spell away, I cant find an area where I can download this type of passing info ?

Re: 4.6 Passing Issues by the Data

By setherick
12/16/2021 9:38 am
Kababmaster wrote:
Silly question, how are you guys downloading this info ? I'm returning after a spell away, I cant find an area where I can download this type of passing info ?


I take the CSV files, upload them into a SQLite database, and then summarize them.

Re: 4.6 Passing Issues by the Data

By ArmoredGiraffe
12/16/2021 9:40 am
TheAdmiral wrote:


There's a fine line between efficiency and effectiveness. In My opinion, by attempting medium and deep passes during a game it will increase the efficiency and effectiveness of the short passes as the Defense will get a little bit of extra room/time either from calling plays where the secondary sits off or from beating the blitz.



Is there any proof that calling long passes changes how a defense performs during the same play? As in if you call several long passes against my 4-3 Man QB Spy, does my FS actually drop back farther in his zone against a short pass with the same defensive play? I have not seen any evidence to suggest that, but I recognize you have played longer than me.

Or are you suggesting something else that I'm not getting?

Re: 4.6 Passing Issues by the Data

By setherick
12/16/2021 9:44 am
ArmoredGiraffe wrote:
TheAdmiral wrote:


There's a fine line between efficiency and effectiveness. In My opinion, by attempting medium and deep passes during a game it will increase the efficiency and effectiveness of the short passes as the Defense will get a little bit of extra room/time either from calling plays where the secondary sits off or from beating the blitz.



Is there any proof that calling long passes changes how a defense performs during the same play? As in if you call several long passes against my 4-3 Man QB Spy, does my FS actually drop back farther in his zone against a short pass with the same defensive play? I have not seen any evidence to suggest that, but I recognize you have played longer than me.

Or are you suggesting something else that I'm not getting?


Correct. This is not a thing.

Re: 4.6 Passing Issues by the Data

By Kababmaster
12/16/2021 9:48 am
setherick wrote:
Kababmaster wrote:
Silly question, how are you guys downloading this info ? I'm returning after a spell away, I cant find an area where I can download this type of passing info ?


I take the CSV files, upload them into a SQLite database, and then summarize them.


Yeah, but where is the download "button" for this....thanks in advance.

Re: 4.6 Passing Issues by the Data

By setherick
12/16/2021 9:51 am
Kababmaster wrote:
setherick wrote:
Kababmaster wrote:
Silly question, how are you guys downloading this info ? I'm returning after a spell away, I cant find an area where I can download this type of passing info ?


You can download individual game csv files in the box score or log. Or use requests in a python script to automate it.

I take the CSV files, upload them into a SQLite database, and then summarize them.


Yeah, but where is the download "button" for this....thanks in advance.

Re: 4.6 Passing Issues by the Data

By Smirt211
12/16/2021 10:09 am
It's like 2pac rapped:

"Bill Clinton, Mr. Bob Dole
You're too old to understand the way the game's told
You're lame, so I gotta hit you with the hot facts."

Admiral creates story lines that are fairy tales. Engine sees RED and has been coded to halt the passing success found in the 4.5 version. You can't loosen it up. It'll clown at you and snicker. I've seen a flicker of life to the 212 PA Streaks in the last month and that's it.

Last edited at 12/16/2021 10:10 am

Re: 4.6 Passing Issues by the Data

By setherick
12/16/2021 11:52 am
Infinity on Trial wrote:

Seriously, though: Where in your spreadsheet is there evidence that long passes are valuable? (Nobody has said you should never throw medium passes.)


I missed this earlier. Since my point on medium and long passes obviously got misinterpreted - not by IoT, but at some point by Admiral - let me reiterate it in nice big, bold font:

There is no statistical benefit currently from throwing more medium passes than long passes, and there is no statistical benefit at all from throwing long passes.

My bigger point is I want to be able to throw more of these and be able to show some benefit from doing it.

Re: 4.6 Passing Issues by the Data

By Blondie1977
1/05/2022 11:16 am
setherick wrote:
Infinity on Trial wrote:

Seriously, though: Where in your spreadsheet is there evidence that long passes are valuable? (Nobody has said you should never throw medium passes.)


I missed this earlier. Since my point on medium and long passes obviously got misinterpreted - not by IoT, but at some point by Admiral - let me reiterate it in nice big, bold font:

There is no statistical benefit currently from throwing more medium passes than long passes, and there is no statistical benefit at all from throwing long passes.

My bigger point is I want to be able to throw more of these and be able to show some benefit from doing it.


The only way I've had success throwing Long Passes is with a QB who has elite passing release and a speedy RB who can get out of the backfield quickly. If you don't have those two elements, it's going to be a sack 9/10 times. You need to hit the RB in the flat. That's the only way I've seen Long Passes work in 4.6.
Last edited at 1/05/2022 11:17 am