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Re: Analytic Game Planning: Defending the Hitch (and maybe other plays)

By Wolfkill
7/12/2020 9:26 am
People use exploits because it makes them feel better about themselves, lol.
Last edited at 7/12/2020 1:48 pm

Re: Analytic Game Planning: Defending the Hitch (and maybe other plays)

By setherick
7/12/2020 9:59 am
Wolfkill wrote:
People use exploits because it makes them feel about themselves, lol.


There is a time and a place for the FL Hitch. The issue that I have with it as a play is that it is, statistically speaking, as likely to produce a 75 yard TD as it is a 25 yard gain. There is something fundamentally wrong with the play and the interaction of the WR and DB that needs fixed or explained -- but JDB won't do it.

So if we're going to use them, let's know how to defend them.

I have a potential new favorite for defending the backside slant routes out of the 212. The Nickel Strong 2 Deep Man.

Unlike the 46 Heavy, which has some issues that I discovered after more play testing, the Nickel Strong 2 Deep parks a safety on the 10 yard line from the LOS above the backside slant. It could be the best containment play I've found for the Hitch, Skinny Posts, and PA FB slants. But I don't have enough real hard data to say for sure.

Re: Analytic Game Planning: Defending the Hitch (and maybe other plays)

By Redneckgopher
7/30/2020 8:30 pm
thanks for this, again your efforts are much appreciated by those of us with less than the desired amount of free time to devote to this game or the analytical skillset

Re: Analytic Game Planning: Defending the Hitch (and maybe other plays)

By setherick
8/07/2020 7:31 pm
Thanks folks! I have updated data, but I haven't dug through all of it yet or packaged it.

Are there other offensive plays that folks are curious about?

Re: Analytic Game Planning: Defending the Hitch (and maybe other plays)

By Cajunman66
8/10/2020 3:22 pm
setherick wrote:
Thanks folks! I have updated data, but I haven't dug through all of it yet or packaged it.

Are there other offensive plays that folks are curious about?


2/1/2 Hard Slants

Re: Analytic Game Planning: Defending the Hitch (and maybe other plays)

By TarquinTheDark
8/10/2020 3:50 pm
setherick wrote:

I have a potential new favorite for defending the backside slant routes out of the 212. The Nickel Strong 2 Deep Man.

Unlike the 46 Heavy, which has some issues that I discovered after more play testing, the Nickel Strong 2 Deep parks a safety on the 10 yard line from the LOS above the backside slant. It could be the best containment play I've found for the Hitch, Skinny Posts, and PA FB slants. But I don't have enough real hard data to say for sure.


The Nickel Strong formation can be found in the Heavy Zone, Heavy M2M, and Balanced playbooks. It will not be found in Run Focused, Pass Focused, or Heavy Blitzing playbooks.

Re: Analytic Game Planning: Defending the Hitch (and maybe other plays)

By CrazySexyBeast
8/13/2020 10:13 pm
I'm glad the nickle strong 2 deep was finally addressed. Personally, I've done pretty decent with a mix of nickle 1deep, 2deep man, and depending on the amount of runs the opponent is using in that set, a splash of either any man/bltz1 (3lb packages) or Nickle Strong 1 deep man under (CB bltz/ man).

Admittedly, any CB blitz vs the hitch will be a gamble depending on R/P ratios over Hitch per pass attempt. More viable vs those that are run heavy in the set and still using the hitch.
That stated, you might get punched in the mouth regardless of your D vs the Hitch.
That's the problem.

Nickle Normal 2 Deep Zone is very viable if the opponent is heavy in the outside WR go's or go and in's medium to long route plays. The LBs will cover any slot 5 and ins. Short outside routes will undercut the outside DB zones though, so be wary about outside WR route depth.. One of the few DB man/zone mix/LB man only plays that work very well in 4.5.
IF your opponent is using the longer WR outside route plays with the hitch base, consider the 2 Deep Zone.
I'm rolling 3.8 yards vs...

Personnel placement is key. Do not neglect over rides. Period.
Last edited at 8/13/2020 10:21 pm

Re: Analytic Game Planning: Defending the Hitch (and maybe other plays)

By CrazySexyBeast
8/13/2020 10:39 pm
The biggest trend I have noticed, as players gravitate towards the 2.1.2 FL hitch (iform norm) and the 2.2.1 Strong I Big TE Post and TE Deep Corner, is that the 1 deep man/ man / man dime plays - and the dime formation in general, has become... I want to use the word useless but.
The better way to phrase it would be "far less viable."
Either one or the other does not work in the best of teams, and the move towards offensive sets that require nickle/quarter D, is noticeable.
I've yet to get either man/man/dime normal play to both work at the same time. Though the personnel is the same, I never get mutual efficacy. I end up "hotstepping" between which ever one is working at my data point collections. Sometimes - to be really darning... I'll use BOTH!

I do think we would be remiss to leave out that the AI, regardless of how a GM sets rules for a particular set (in this thread the hitch), that certain plays will dubiously be called more often than others. Also true on D.
The AI "seems" to gravitate towards the hitch as the leading play called for the short pass in the 2.1.2.
Please keep in mind I do not use offensive rules.
In my last 32 games it is 2 hitch calls to about .75 of the other 6 short 2.1.2 pass plays I've used.
I've definitely tried to lessen the blow, so to speak as I've tried to find a way to not be called a cheat simply because it's in my playbook. ;)
Perhaps it's not players abusing, but the AI play selection within a set that can result in the perception of "abuse of exploits.... ERRR BROKEN PLAYS."
Let's call it 33/33/33: abuser/game planners/no off rule users and 1% chaos theory.
The same can be said for other dominant plays, both offensively and defensively.
Why else would a GM have 2x 1deepman Nickle plays - and one being called 20 to 5 over the other within the same formation?
That last block is certainly an entirely different thread, and let us not divulge upon it here, please and ty.
Keep it up seth!

Last edited at 8/13/2020 11:26 pm

Re: Analytic Game Planning: Defending the Hitch (and maybe other plays)

By Hellbringer
12/05/2020 9:17 am
So goal line D vs. the HB Flare's?

Re: Analytic Game Planning: Defending the Hitch (and maybe other plays)

By setherick
12/05/2020 12:06 pm
Hellbringer wrote:
So goal line D vs. the HB Flare's?


Oddly enough. I think the Cover 2 GL defense that covers the RB might work. I'm not game enough try it.