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Re: Draft: Rounds 5,6 & 7

By setherick
4/18/2017 8:01 pm
Ares wrote:
I think it would be great if players could have some wiggle room in terms of their 'static' attributes (i.e. strength, speed, etc). This would reflect the challenges of inexact scouting, as well as the general benefits of entering into pro level conditioning programs. This could also be used to allow more 'late round booms' by allowing rare significant jumps in those attributes.


THIS!

I hate the fact that there are static attributes at all, especially Strength. Strength is completely unrealistic. Players get stronger in the NFL because they have money to pay personnel trainers to learn how to eat and condition properly. Maybe JDB's "frame" attribute that he's proposing could be the "hidden" deciding factor in late round booms.

Re: Draft: Rounds 5,6 & 7

By raymattison21
4/18/2017 8:40 pm
setherick wrote:
Ares wrote:
I think it would be great if players could have some wiggle room in terms of their 'static' attributes (i.e. strength, speed, etc). This would reflect the challenges of inexact scouting, as well as the general benefits of entering into pro level conditioning programs. This could also be used to allow more 'late round booms' by allowing rare significant jumps in those attributes.


THIS!

I hate the fact that there are static attributes at all, especially Strength. Strength is completely unrealistic. Players get stronger in the NFL because they have money to pay personnel trainers to learn how to eat and condition properly. Maybe JDB's "frame" attribute that he's proposing could be the "hidden" deciding factor in late round booms.



Well, combine numbers do not necessarily change. These top prospects know the millions they can receive depending on how they perform and they train specifically for these drills. (Mike mamula . )

One thing that is hard for trainers to replicate is the muscle memory developed during repeated drills for developing techniques then applying that to the physical demands of the game. Not that they have to play to develop it but one would consider this the adjusting to the speed at which the nfl is played at. Some guys just aren't ready. Still, I see that window getting smaller and smaller each year.

Also, you Got to remember Levan Kirkland came out of college at a little over 200 pounds and retired neAR 300. He was explosive the whole time. He definitely got stronger. Still Brock Lesnar ex pro wrestler came in a physical specimen at age 28 and could do squat do to no technical skills.

Terrell Owens ran a faster 40 at age 32 then he posted at the combine at age 23. It all minor changes but still sounds tough to code.


I do like the idea of volatility some how helping and hurting a player at random in other areas. Some hidden built in "frame" allowing for some to have greater gains and or losses does change speed and strenght of that player.

Perhaps conditioning can be more elaborate or volatile .

Re: Draft: Rounds 5,6 & 7

By punisher
4/18/2017 9:55 pm
Pernbronze wrote:

I would suggest position coaches be able to "fix" busts. I think if you tied vol into coaching you would have a more impactful game.


i have to say this is the best deal to me that i have read in this thread because really considering we have a coaching staff for our teams we should be able to use them to fix busts or even make the boomers even more scarier with the coaching them give them.

Re: Draft: Rounds 5,6 & 7

By Booger926
4/19/2017 3:40 am
I have a suggestion

Instead of having numerical values for the attributes of the incoming Draft Class, assign letter A thru F grades based on the average of the attributes of the incoming Draft class with an overall average grade. After the draft, all drafted players and undrafted players would then revert to their creation numerical numbers.

And since there are only 7 skill based drills at the real combine that all combine participants do, (the 40, the bench, the vertical and broad jump, the 3 cone drill, and the 20 and 60 yard shuttles) these should be the only information that owners should have on their radar.

Yes, a lineman is going to have a higher bench than a QB, and almost everyone will have a faster 40 than a lineman. But having letter grades for just these seven attributes might make an owner scan and guess the later rounds.

Although it would be extra work for the programmers, its just an idea
Last edited at 4/19/2017 3:41 am

Re: Draft: Rounds 5,6 & 7

By WarEagle
4/19/2017 5:41 am
Booger926 wrote:

And since there are only 7 skill based drills at the real combine that all combine participants do, (the 40, the bench, the vertical and broad jump, the 3 cone drill, and the 20 and 60 yard shuttles) these should be the only information that owners should have on their radar.



There is a lot of other data NFL teams have access to in addition to the combine drills.
Many games worth of film to watch, Pro-days, one on one interviews / drills, etc.

I think the volatility rating being shown is good and needed.

With it, you still don't know if the player is going to improve or decline.

Without it, you have nothing at all to consider when deciding if you want to draft player A or player B (all things being equal).

I like for there to be at least something I can use to help decide if I want to take a chance on a player other than the max speed rating.

Re: Draft: Rounds 5,6 & 7

By parsh
4/19/2017 11:36 am
WarEagle wrote:
Booger926 wrote:

And since there are only 7 skill based drills at the real combine that all combine participants do, (the 40, the bench, the vertical and broad jump, the 3 cone drill, and the 20 and 60 yard shuttles) these should be the only information that owners should have on their radar.



There is a lot of other data NFL teams have access to in addition to the combine drills.
Many games worth of film to watch, Pro-days, one on one interviews / drills, etc.

I think the volatility rating being shown is good and needed.

With it, you still don't know if the player is going to improve or decline.

Without it, you have nothing at all to consider when deciding if you want to draft player A or player B (all things being equal).

I like for there to be at least something I can use to help decide if I want to take a chance on a player other than the max speed rating.


And I would fight to the end saying to be rid of the volatility score because IRL, those are the chances you take ..

Re: Draft: Rounds 5,6 & 7

By Pernbronze
4/19/2017 12:21 pm
parsh wrote:
WarEagle wrote:
Booger926 wrote:

And since there are only 7 skill based drills at the real combine that all combine participants do, (the 40, the bench, the vertical and broad jump, the 3 cone drill, and the 20 and 60 yard shuttles) these should be the only information that owners should have on their radar.



There is a lot of other data NFL teams have access to in addition to the combine drills.
Many games worth of film to watch, Pro-days, one on one interviews / drills, etc.

I think the volatility rating being shown is good and needed.

With it, you still don't know if the player is going to improve or decline.

Without it, you have nothing at all to consider when deciding if you want to draft player A or player B (all things being equal).

I like for there to be at least something I can use to help decide if I want to take a chance on a player other than the max speed rating.


And I would fight to the end saying to be rid of the volatility score because IRL, those are the chances you take ..


But IRL players always receive volatility scores. The scouting department determines what his frame can handle and what he can improve on with ease with coaching versus what will be much harder to change. IRL scouting provides a much more accurate volatility assessment especially based on improvement or regression.

Re: Draft: Rounds 5,6 & 7

By Ragnulf-le-maudit
4/19/2017 1:55 pm
Could we have a conditionning staff, which would be able to influence physical attributes gain, based on its rating ?

Re: Draft: Rounds 5,6 & 7

By raymattison21
4/19/2017 2:25 pm
Pernbronze wrote:
parsh wrote:
WarEagle wrote:
Booger926 wrote:

And since there are only 7 skill based drills at the real combine that all combine participants do, (the 40, the bench, the vertical and broad jump, the 3 cone drill, and the 20 and 60 yard shuttles) these should be the only information that owners should have on their radar.



There is a lot of other data NFL teams have access to in addition to the combine drills.
Many games worth of film to watch, Pro-days, one on one interviews / drills, etc.

I think the volatility rating being shown is good and needed.

With it, you still don't know if the player is going to improve or decline.

Without it, you have nothing at all to consider when deciding if you want to draft player A or player B (all things being equal).

I like for there to be at least something I can use to help decide if I want to take a chance on a player other than the max speed rating.


And I would fight to the end saying to be rid of the volatility score because IRL, those are the chances you take ..


But IRL players always receive volatility scores. The scouting department determines what his frame can handle and what he can improve on with ease with coaching versus what will be much harder to change. IRL scouting provides a much more accurate volatility assessment especially based on improvement or regression.



3 huge busts out of the 2017 draft in 75 all were first rounders.......2 years later. Bunnell has 11 career interceptions . Spero has 8 sacks, and Edimintson has over 1000 snaps like all of these complete busts. Until a busts is actually a bust in this game I see comparisons to the nfl being kinda pointless.

There athletic ability still has them playing significant time. Perhaps they won't be resigned but there are no Trent Richardson , no JaMarcus Russells . .....really just bad picks who are serviceable with position changes.

You want a 90 in the first round....an 80 is ok, and our busts end up being fast and strong high 60 rated players . An average 5 or 6 or 7 rounder here. Too bad there are no players that athletic left by then to draft anyway.

Pay attention to how all these guys all defenders . As speed is too much of a premium on defense in general . One of my sets of Weights is named AL davis.

Re: Draft: Rounds 5,6 & 7

By WarEagle
4/19/2017 2:28 pm
parsh wrote:


And I would fight to the end saying to be rid of the volatility score because IRL, those are the chances you take ..


You're still taking chances here also.

IRL there are often players who everyone knows is going to be a good, productive player, but you're pretty much going to get what you see. And then there are also those who have a high ceiling, but also a low floor.

When I see a player with a high volatility, I imagine my top scout telling me "This guy could be a star, but I'm not sure he's worth the risk".

That's the way I see the volatility rating, a combination of what I first mentioned, but also mixed with a little of the real life character/off-the-field type issues that might make a great talent drop, or a mediocre talent rise in the draft.