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Re: Player Playbook Knowledge

By Brrexkl
1/22/2017 6:16 pm
saskwatch wrote:
i agree that playbook knowledge shouldnt be a defining trait for experienced players ie:3 or 4 yr players n up.however,i think rookies and qb's joining a new team should b affected,using intelligence n volativity to determine how fast they learn them.even a tom bradyesque qb needs some time to learn a new playbook when joining a new team.granted he'll perform better than a midling qb,but he wont jump in and master them immediatly.


Except it has a real impact in real football with Vets as well. Some guys just can't grasp a play book and only hold on to a Roster Spot because they are more skilled, until a SLIGHTLY lesser skilled guy can bump him.

Some guys never learn the Route Tree... which is a very simple thing... and can still only effectively run a handful of Routes their entire career. Some QBs just can't digest a Play Book.

One recent example is Jamie Collins, largely considered a Top 5 MLB in the NFL that NE traded to CLE. Part of the Trade was him being on his last year of a Contract that NE wouldn't give him the Pay Day he wanted, part of it was Collins largely free lances... ignores assignment and just goes for the ball. Bill called him out for that in NE, but CLE is so talent starved, and Collins is so good (a Top 5 MLB in the NFL DESPITE not playing within his own Team's System), that we made the deal and hope to lock him down long term.

So he can still be good... but busted plays will happen when he's not where he should be, because the Play is designed with him being where he should be. Most people aren't Jamie Collins level Ability, so when they don't know the play it's magnified.

Then other guys hang around forever despite a lack of skill because they can devour a playbook. Take Cleveland again... QB Josh McCown. Dude sticks around because he can go Team to Team and requires almost no Practice Snaps to be able to run the Offense. He just puts on the tape and a few reps in Camp, and he's got the Offense down Cold. Problem is, he's just not a very good QB due to Accuracy limitation and excessive Risk Taking. But the man can Master a Play Book in a single Camp, bouncing from Team to Team. It's amazing. If he had Skill, he'd be a freaking Manning.

So I think PBK should be a big deal for Vets, especially Vets constantly shifting Teams and never staying in the same System.

But again, NONE OF THIS IS ABOUT THE ORIGINAL IDEA. I just want to know what Plays on the Player Play Book Knowledge are (1) on my Team Play Book and (2) Active that Week. THAT is the suggestion. :D

Re: Player Playbook Knowledge

By raymattison21
1/22/2017 11:57 pm
Brrexkl wrote:
I like it. I makes sense as well. You are more effective in real life with a Play that you know, and against a Play you recognize and/or practiced against, than you are on a Play you don't know.

Most Teams only run a handful of Plays in actuality, but they mask it by running that Play from a variety of formations. Now, other Teams have a plethora of plays and more complex concepts, but to each their own in that regard.

I mean in reality the HB Dive Strong from the I Form, I Strong and I Weak... it's the exact same play. The only difference is the route the FB takes to Lead the Run. Same would go with something like an Shallow Flood out of each... nothing really changes between those 3 Formations. This is so a Team can master a Play, but disguise it to a Defense by being able to run it in 3 Different 'Fronts' or 'Looks'.

.



I do not like play familiarity and i think your view on how the nfl might associate it is extremely simple way to look at the game. Everything changes and uses different rules within the assignments for every example you provided.

Sounds like you played alot of madden and a little actual football.

Sorry for being so intrusive in this suggestion but your inaccuracies in this thread towards the actual game of football is just disrespect to the game. Good night !

I will be looking for a league near you...
Last edited at 1/22/2017 11:58 pm

Re: Player Playbook Knowledge

By raymattison21
1/23/2017 12:22 am
Brrexkl wrote:
raymattison21 wrote:
Real football has rules within the assignments and it all depends on how the other guys line up and the look he is going. This is why teams disguise stuff.

Those minute alignment do change reads and assignments and force players to use different blocking techniques. The FB has some of the simplest reads which lead to simple blocking techniques . He might have to drive with his inside shoulder....outside shoulder....he might have to kick out...it all depends on what the defense shows and does after the snap. Particularly the FB will have seek out different players . Play familiarity is not simple at all and should be reset as a player changes position groups. And definitely should not carry over as you say. It should be scraped or it acts more like team chemistry . ....or that how I view it in relation to real football


I never said it should carry over when changing Position Groups. The FB is still the FB, whether he is in Balanced, Weak or Strong... still the FB.

If the TE flexes out, he's still the TE. He's simply flexed. He's not learning to be a WR, he's learning to do what a TE does when a TE is asked to Flex (which on that particular play would be what the Slot WR would do if they had came out with a Slot instead of a TE).

But again, NONE OF THIS HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE ACTUAL SUGGESTION.


Still, it should be scrapped because when you switch positions the player doesn't have to learn the play again....even though he is learning a whole new position with a complete set of assignments. To me that is an exploit. Most of my players Play multiple positions and can cross over position groups with ease. IMO it's just not that easy . ..here guys are penalized only by learning a new position. About a four to eight game penalty till max ability is reached....

Re: Player Playbook Knowledge

By Brrexkl
1/23/2017 1:36 am
raymattison21 wrote:
Brrexkl wrote:
I like it. I makes sense as well. You are more effective in real life with a Play that you know, and against a Play you recognize and/or practiced against, than you are on a Play you don't know.

Most Teams only run a handful of Plays in actuality, but they mask it by running that Play from a variety of formations. Now, other Teams have a plethora of plays and more complex concepts, but to each their own in that regard.

I mean in reality the HB Dive Strong from the I Form, I Strong and I Weak... it's the exact same play. The only difference is the route the FB takes to Lead the Run. Same would go with something like an Shallow Flood out of each... nothing really changes between those 3 Formations. This is so a Team can master a Play, but disguise it to a Defense by being able to run it in 3 Different 'Fronts' or 'Looks'.

.



I do not like play familiarity and i think your view on how the nfl might associate it is extremely simple way to look at the game. Everything changes and uses different rules within the assignments for every example you provided.

Sounds like you played alot of madden and a little actual football.

Sorry for being so intrusive in this suggestion but your inaccuracies in this thread towards the actual game of football is just disrespect to the game. Good night !

I will be looking for a league near you...


I played in High School, and I was on the Practice Squad (Non-Scholarship) as a Walk On at the U of Alabama for a Season (had enrolled in College previously, only had a Season of Eligibility remaining and didn't crack the roster in that time).

You are completely misunderstanding what I'm saying. It's very frustrating and irritating.

You are talking about changes in responsibility depending upon Defensive Formation. That is going to happen regardless.

Against a 43 Under, the FB in a Weak, Strong or Balanced I is going to have the exact same responsibility if he's designated the Lead Block. As I stated, they can us him instead to seal the back, and Pull an OL to Lead instead. But in a LEAD Dive, he's going to do the same thing, just from a different angle.

It doesn't matter if he's Strong, Weak or Balanced, if he's the Lead he's going to the same **** spot against that Defensive Alignment. Nothing changes for him, if he's the designated Lead, because of the difference in where he's aligned. Do you understand this point?

Now against a Base 43, he's going to have a different responsibility. He's still the Lead, but the OL/TE had to adjust their blocks, because it's no longer the Under. But against the Base 43, it doesn't matter that the FB is in a Weak, Strong or Balanced... if he's the Lead he's going to the same place starting from a different angle. Do you understand this point?

Nothing at all changed for the FB, despite him being in a Weak, or Strong, or Balanced because of HIS Alignment. It only changed because of the DEFENSIVE ALIGNMENT. Do you understand that?

A TE flexing out is very much the same. The type of block will change because he'll be attacking from a different angle, but he's still going to key the same guy. Follow?

What you are discussing and what I'm discussing are not the same thing, and your constant failure to recognize that is getting tiresome.

Which is all piled ON TOP of you not actually saying anything towards the ACTUAL SUGGESTION.

Which has NOTHING to do with anything at all you've discussed. The SUGGESTION, the entire POINT OF THE POST, is that I'd like to be able to tell from the Player Card which **** plays are in the (1) in the Coaches Play Book and (2) Active. Do you have literally anything at all to say on THAT point?

Re: Player Playbook Knowledge

By Brrexkl
1/23/2017 1:41 am
raymattison21 wrote:
Brrexkl wrote:
raymattison21 wrote:
Real football has rules within the assignments and it all depends on how the other guys line up and the look he is going. This is why teams disguise stuff.

Those minute alignment do change reads and assignments and force players to use different blocking techniques. The FB has some of the simplest reads which lead to simple blocking techniques . He might have to drive with his inside shoulder....outside shoulder....he might have to kick out...it all depends on what the defense shows and does after the snap. Particularly the FB will have seek out different players . Play familiarity is not simple at all and should be reset as a player changes position groups. And definitely should not carry over as you say. It should be scraped or it acts more like team chemistry . ....or that how I view it in relation to real football


I never said it should carry over when changing Position Groups. The FB is still the FB, whether he is in Balanced, Weak or Strong... still the FB.

If the TE flexes out, he's still the TE. He's simply flexed. He's not learning to be a WR, he's learning to do what a TE does when a TE is asked to Flex (which on that particular play would be what the Slot WR would do if they had came out with a Slot instead of a TE).

But again, NONE OF THIS HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE ACTUAL SUGGESTION.


Still, it should be scrapped because when you switch positions the player doesn't have to learn the play again....even though he is learning a whole new position with a complete set of assignments. To me that is an exploit. Most of my players Play multiple positions and can cross over position groups with ease. IMO it's just not that easy . ..here guys are penalized only by learning a new position. About a four to eight game penalty till max ability is reached....


But he doesn't have to learn the play again in real life either. ****, I knew the assignment of every player on the field when I played, because I learned the PLAY... the ENTIRE PLAY... not just MY RESPONSIBILITY.

What YOU are talking about is Player Responsibility. What I'm talking about is Play Knowledge. You are talking about the variations of a single Player and the intricacies involved. Against this Front I X, against this Front I Y. That's Player Responsibility.

Play Knowledge is of the ENTIRE PLAY. If you learned the Play... and not JUST your Responsibility, then what do you need to Learn about it if you move from LG to TE, or even QB? You know the PLAY, not an Individual Assignment.

I see 'Play Book'. I don't see 'Individual Assignment'.

If these dots of ours were merely learning Individual Assignments, I'd agree with you on Position Changes requiring Plays to be re-learned from the perspective of the new Individual Assignment.

That's not what it says. It's not saying they learn their Assignment, it says (and perhaps I'm taking it to literally) PLAY KNOWLEDGE. Not Individual Assignment Knowledge. They are Learning the ENTIRE PLAY.

If this was Assignment Knowledge, I'd tend to agree with you. It's not... it's Play Knowledge. Which is the ENTIRE PLAY, not just one Individual Assignment in the Play.

Re: Player Playbook Knowledge

By raymattison21
1/23/2017 8:42 am
To me muscle memory has nothing to do with intelligence . .....I pretty sure your not understanding me ..muscle memory is built-in to the muscles and it is increased when training with repetitive action.

You need to execute efficiently . .....not practice over and over. With that theory every one would be good because of endless familiarity and practice . ....irl guys get tired . ..I would agree that play familiarity is more like watching film.....not pratice and nothing ever is learned in game, except what not to do in games.

Here you should get tired and would fail the movement to execute because of overuse...this is why the overuse penalty had to be applied in the first place. No one gets better in a game. It the reps in practice

Still, you will spend your time convincing me of nothing as I continue to exploit this feature of the game...

A feature that I think ACTS more like team chemistry . As I was familiar with the assignments before this post and still will be after. The only reason I cannot execute them cause my muscle memory is not up to the task because I have not practiced in years. Still, my familiarity is great, but just like any pro they will stink if they don't practice it.

But by no means is a smarter guy doing this more effectively than any other pro. Smart player already make generic "good" decisions in this game ....

Also, I will continue to single you out on one of your opinions as YOU continue to single out my opinion.

My main question is if you are so confident on your assessments here..why keep this going? Go on with your ideas and win games.......I don't care. Numerous times JDB has changed the code cause of exploitable or people just don't like it.

I bet there are more people that have no understanding of play familiarity more than you...l it's OK as not much documentation is on it, but to defend it legitimacy is just absurd.

Its broke.

Re: Player Playbook Knowledge

By raymattison21
1/23/2017 8:52 am
Brrexkl wrote:
raymattison21 wrote:
Brrexkl wrote:
raymattison21 wrote:
Real football has rules within the assignments and it all depends on how the other guys line up and the look he is going. This is why teams disguise stuff.

Those minute alignment do change reads and assignments and force players to use different blocking techniques. The FB has some of the simplest reads which lead to simple blocking techniques . He might have to drive with his inside shoulder....outside shoulder....he might have to kick out...it all depends on what the defense shows and does after the snap. Particularly the FB will have seek out different players . Play familiarity is not simple at all and should be reset as a player changes position groups. And definitely should not carry over as you say. It should be scraped or it acts more like team chemistry . ....or that how I view it in relation to real football


I never said it should carry over when changing Position Groups. The FB is still the FB, whether he is in Balanced, Weak or Strong... still the FB.

If the TE flexes out, he's still the TE. He's simply flexed. He's not learning to be a WR, he's learning to do what a TE does when a TE is asked to Flex (which on that particular play would be what the Slot WR would do if they had came out with a Slot instead of a TE).

But again, NONE OF THIS HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE ACTUAL SUGGESTION.


Still, it should be scrapped because when you switch positions the player doesn't have to learn the play again....even though he is learning a whole new position with a complete set of assignments. To me that is an exploit. Most of my players Play multiple positions and can cross over position groups with ease. IMO it's just not that easy . ..here guys are penalized only by learning a new position. About a four to eight game penalty till max ability is reached....


But he doesn't have to learn the play again in real life either. ****, I knew the assignment of every player on the field when I played, because I learned the PLAY... the ENTIRE PLAY... not just MY RESPONSIBILITY.

What YOU are talking about is Player Responsibility. What I'm talking about is Play Knowledge. You are talking about the variations of a single Player and the intricacies involved. Against this Front I X, against this Front I Y. That's Player Responsibility.

Play Knowledge is of the ENTIRE PLAY. If you learned the Play... and not JUST your Responsibility, then what do you need to Learn about it if you move from LG to TE, or even QB? You know the PLAY, not an Individual Assignment.

I see 'Play Book'. I don't see 'Individual Assignment'.

If these dots of ours were merely learning Individual Assignments, I'd agree with you on Position Changes requiring Plays to be re-learned from the perspective of the new Individual Assignment.

That's not what it says. It's not saying they learn their Assignment, it says (and perhaps I'm taking it to literally) PLAY KNOWLEDGE. Not Individual Assignment Knowledge. They are Learning the ENTIRE PLAY.

If this was Assignment Knowledge, I'd tend to agree with you. It's not... it's Play Knowledge. Which is the ENTIRE PLAY, not just one Individual Assignment in the Play.


Just tell me this what is the MLB read on a counter?

How about the DES read on that counter?

How about the FBS read?

It doesn't matter because we have no rules within assignments or reads for that matter.

How about the man cover schemes out of goaline vs. That play action pass? Tell what familiarity is causing these guys to leave one guy open while doubling another?

Nothing cause the DBS are not following any rules within there assignments . ....

You act like every play knows what the others supposed to do. I don't think it all that easy. This is why nfl staff are so huge. So that it is not left up to the player to decide....it in grained in by watching film and endless hours of practice involving sport specified movements . Not being familiar with it!

Re: Player Playbook Knowledge

By raymattison21
1/23/2017 9:07 am


You are completely misunderstanding what I'm saying. It's very frustrating and irritating.



What you are discussing and what I'm discussing are not the same thing, and your constant failure to recognize that is getting tiresome.



Tired? Nah... I am good...how about you? Why not just join a league I am in...better yet a division , cause I have been waiting for on to open up in one of yours.

Please enlighten me more by stomping my team in to the ground ,cause this is a pisser contest for me.

You should be able to defend yourself or let it go...either way you turned this in to a challenge thread....trying to out type some body..ll.how about we just race.....3 pm @ the bike racks after school

Re: Player Playbook Knowledge

By Mcarovil
1/23/2017 9:29 am
I've gone thru 2 buckets of popcorn already. Don't stop now.

Re: Player Playbook Knowledge

By Brrexkl
1/23/2017 3:10 pm
raymattison21 wrote:
To me muscle memory has nothing to do with intelligence . .....I pretty sure your not understanding me ..muscle memory is built-in to the muscles and it is increased when training with repetitive action.

You need to execute efficiently . .....not practice over and over. With that theory every one would be good because of endless familiarity and practice . ....irl guys get tired . ..I would agree that play familiarity is more like watching film.....not pratice and nothing ever is learned in game, except what not to do in games.

Here you should get tired and would fail the movement to execute because of overuse...this is why the overuse penalty had to be applied in the first place. No one gets better in a game. It the reps in practice

Still, you will spend your time convincing me of nothing as I continue to exploit this feature of the game...

A feature that I think ACTS more like team chemistry . As I was familiar with the assignments before this post and still will be after. The only reason I cannot execute them cause my muscle memory is not up to the task because I have not practiced in years. Still, my familiarity is great, but just like any pro they will stink if they don't practice it.

But by no means is a smarter guy doing this more effectively than any other pro. Smart player already make generic "good" decisions in this game ....

Also, I will continue to single you out on one of your opinions as YOU continue to single out my opinion.

My main question is if you are so confident on your assessments here..why keep this going? Go on with your ideas and win games.......I don't care. Numerous times JDB has changed the code cause of exploitable or people just don't like it.

I bet there are more people that have no understanding of play familiarity more than you...l it's OK as not much documentation is on it, but to defend it legitimacy is just absurd.

Its broke.


*** are you talking about. It's a Video Game, and you're preaching Muscle Memory?
Again, the SUGGESTION is this:

Player Play Book Knowledge should Hi-Lite Plays that are (1) in the Team Play Book and (2) Currently Active.

That is the discussion, something you've not a single time participated in.