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Re: Strange Player Transactions

By dmcc1
12/01/2015 6:10 am
Toriq wrote:
Coach Pappy wrote:
Gustoon wrote:
That's a big accusation, why do you say he's been cheating and what has he admitted to?


Read this thread.. he admits it. That's what this thread is about.


First real post on MFN and figures it's going to be in this thread. I just read the entire thing and here are my thoughts - not that anyone cares what a noob thinks.

1 - Cheating in/on online competitive games tends to eventually destroy said games. Has happened often enough in my almost 35+ years of gaming (Is a 70's Pong console even considered a gaming start?!?) once online gaming came about - guess that makes it since around early 90s with BB games and then MMOs and then sports sims etc.

2 - Allowing cheaters to remain in the game is bad policy. Giving admitted cheaters a "pass" is bad policy. Even in a completely free game where money is optional. Why? Because, for instance, as of this reading I - who was going to spend my real $$ here - have decided that it wouldn't be such a good idea right now. Not if admitted cheaters are "tolerated." Sorry, just seen too many good games go to **** from this sort of official policy and I won't spent my cash on such things. But, I will continue to run my 1 team for free and see what happens down the road.

3 - The policy will do more to deter potential users - especially those who read this thread (as it changed my mind on spending real money.) It will not deter habitual cheaters from joining since it's apparently their kind of "environment." Is that a good outcome for a healthy game and community? Doubtful. These things need to be rooted out early and have harsh repercussions or else there will eventually be no one willing to pay to play vs. gamer's with a cheater's mentality.

4 - The cheater can own up (apparently, going by this thread, not to everything though) when caught. I mean it's pretty logical that such a person when caught red-handed would be remorseful (probably fake) in order to be able to continue feeding that game addiction. I mean 30+ leagues with 1-2-3-more? teams in them? That is an addiction. An addiction is fine as long as the person is honestly playing. However, allowing the cheating addict to continue doesn't help the game or community. I seriously doubt such a confirmed cheat will change stripes. - likely just saying "sorry" to hopefully get a pass and keep feeding the addiction, imo. Well, it worked.

my .02 cents spent.

Have a good Holiday season.


I agree with you. I have left both leagues I was in that Dark Rogue was allowed to stay in.

Re: Strange Player Transactions

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
12/01/2015 12:23 pm
I appreciate all of your comments, here is my brief rebuttal about my decision.

If a player quickly comes clean about cheating on the first known offense I am inclined to extend grace on him. Why allow not ban him entirely? Because, as the game is free, it is trivial to re-enter the same league, taking over the very team he was just banned from, using another alias - with no negative repercussions. Ban his IP address? Trivial to work around especially when masking his IP address was part of his initial plan anyway. In short, it is preferable to me to have a user on probation than to kill one user's access when he can just easily return as someone else and repeat the offense.

I have banned players in cases where they did not come clean immediately, or for other abuses, and am not afraid to do so.

Re: Strange Player Transactions

By Gustoon - League Admin
12/01/2015 12:38 pm
jdavidbakr wrote:
I appreciate all of your comments, here is my brief rebuttal about my decision.

If a player quickly comes clean about cheating on the first known offense I am inclined to extend grace on him. Why allow not ban him entirely? Because, as the game is free, it is trivial to re-enter the same league, taking over the very team he was just banned from, using another alias - with no negative repercussions. Ban his IP address? Trivial to work around especially when masking his IP address was part of his initial plan anyway. In short, it is preferable to me to have a user on probation than to kill one user's access when he can just easily return as someone else and repeat the offense.

I have banned players in cases where they did not come clean immediately, or for other abuses, and am not afraid to do so.


TBH JDB, if folks want to cheat they will and there's no reason to suspect that Dark Rogue is already using alias's .
As a site owner IMHO you have 3 decisions, the one you've chosen or make life difficult by taking the measures you've said or just ban him, I would choose the latter, sure he can come back as someone else, but making life hard for him........or we just all play with a cheater.

Its a great game, I love it and its a shame that idiots like him have done this.

Re: Strange Player Transactions

By dmcc1
12/01/2015 1:09 pm
The one thing I don't understand is the "he came clean"

He didn't - he got caught. You've made your decision but if he is allowed to rejoin other leagues I'll be leaving if its one I'm in and I'd encourage everyone else to do the same. Once a cheat always a cheat.

Re: Strange Player Transactions

By Coach Pappy
12/01/2015 1:14 pm
jdavidbakr wrote:
I appreciate all of your comments, here is my brief rebuttal about my decision.

If a player quickly comes clean about cheating on the first known offense I am inclined to extend grace on him. Why allow not ban him entirely? Because, as the game is free, it is trivial to re-enter the same league, taking over the very team he was just banned from, using another alias - with no negative repercussions. Ban his IP address? Trivial to work around especially when masking his IP address was part of his initial plan anyway. In short, it is preferable to me to have a user on probation than to kill one user's access when he can just easily return as someone else and repeat the offense.

I have banned players in cases where they did not come clean immediately, or for other abuses, and am not afraid to do so.


I understand he can just use another alias and mask his IP, but I would also make him jump through as many hurdles as he could to stay here. He has basically ruined the Fake Pigskin league for its lifespan. It should probably be shut down. The effects of his scheme will be too long lasting to overcome.

He also shouldn't still be in charge of the team he built through cheating if you keep him in the league and the league together. Make him take over one of the teams he used an alias with. Why make a new user have to take over a team he destroyed and why have him get to keep a team he built by cheating?

PS - Can you remove me from the Fake pigskin league please?

Re: Strange Player Transactions

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
12/01/2015 1:30 pm
dmcc1 wrote:
The one thing I don't understand is the "he came clean"


Not everything that happened in this situation is recorded in this thread.

Re: Strange Player Transactions

By jsid
12/01/2015 1:47 pm
Coach Pappy wrote:
He has basically ruined the Fake Pigskin league for its lifespan. It should probably be shut down. The effects of his scheme will be too long lasting to overcome.


You joined a team that's not built to win in year one, but in a season or two you could build a team that could consistently beat him. This game is 20% Luck, 30% Roster, 50% Gameplan. One OP roster does not ruin a league.

Re: Strange Player Transactions

By Coach Pappy
12/01/2015 2:11 pm
OP? I don't follow that lingo.. When he is allowed to remain in control of a team that he cheated to build, and it has 19 of 22 starters with less than 6 years of playing time. It will stay together for a while. It is by far the best team in the league and will be that way for a while. I understand building and taking my time and working to get better (too bad he didn't).

Still learning the ropes so I may be off on my guesstimates. If we play 2 games a week then each season will take about 12 weeks to complete? (20 games with playoffs = 10 weeks, 2 weeks preaseason). So 3 months per season and 4 season/ year. How many season will it take for that league to come back to normal?? I would say 4 at the very least.. that's 1 year of time spent on something where I have no chance to win?

I just really have one question that I can't resolve... Why is he allowed to keep that team? He should have to rebuild one of the allias teams that he destroyed

Re: Strange Player Transactions

By Wolfpack
12/01/2015 2:55 pm
Coach Pappy wrote:


I just really have one question that I can't resolve... Why is he allowed to keep that team? He should have to rebuild one of the allias teams that he destroyed


Agreed and only a single team for at least a season.

Re: Strange Player Transactions

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
12/01/2015 3:09 pm
As jsid said above, there is a lot more to this game than acquiring a good roster, and the flip side to stocking your roster is that you will not be able to keep the players under the salary cap as they are continuing to ask for more as that adjustment takes place. If I felt the actions harmed the league as much as some of you feel it has I would have taken more action, truth be had there are plenty of similar situations where there was no cheating involved.

It's tough to win it all here especially with an active league, no matter what your roster looks like.

I have stated my piece as have those who disagree with what I have done, I will not reveal any more detail about this situation and hold to my opinion that it was handled well. I hope you will agree to disagree, and if a similar situation will arise in the future (which is likely) I will evaluate it and take appropriate action to protect the game, and continue to add safeguards to prevent the issue in the first place.